head 1.1; access; symbols; locks http:1.1; strict; comment @# @; 1.1 date 2003.09.24.12.19.26; author NicholasWalton; state Exp; branches; next ; desc @none @ 1.1 log @none @ text @AVO Science Working Group Meeting ================================= 20-21 January 2003: Jodrell Bank Observatory, UK --------------------------------------------- Draft Minutes: NAW 22 Sep 2003 Present (for all or part of 20/21 Jan 2003): Mark Allen MA AVO-CDS Salim Ansari SA Anthony Banday AB SWG David Barnes DB Aus-VO Piero Benvenuti PB AVO-ESA SWG Thomas Boch TB AVO-CDS John Brooke JB Laurent Cambresy LC AVO-CDS Lars Lindberg Christensen LLC Luiz Da Costa LdC SWG John Keith Davies JD Opticon Richard de Grijs RG SWG David De Young DdY NVO Phil Diamond PD AstroGrid-JBO Markus Dolensky MD AVO-ESO Mike Edmunds ME Jim Emerson JE Pepi Fabbiano PF NVO-CfA SWG Simon Garrington SG AstroGrid-JBO Neil Geddes NG PPARC Francoise Genova FG AVO-CDS Gerry Gilmore GG Opticon SWG Ana Gomez de Castro AC SWG Tim Goodwin TG AstroGrid Preben Grosbol PG SWG Robert Hanisch BH NVO SWG Neal Jackson NJ Florian Kerber FK SWG Vagelis Kontikas VK Mary Kontizas MK SWG Michael Kramer MiK Andrew Lawrence AL AstroGrid Patrick Leahy PL SWG Bruno Leibundgut BL SWG Marco Leoni ML AVO-ESO Tony Linde TL AstroGrid Jonathan McDowell JM NVO Yannick Mellier YM AstroGrid-IAP SWG Alberto Micol AM AVO-ESO Panayotis Moschopoulos PM EU Research-DG Tom Muxlow TM Tom Oosterloo TO Patricio Ortiz PO AstroGrid SWG Benoit Pirenne BP AVO-ESO Timo Prusti TP SWG Peter Quinn PQ AVO-ESO Anita Richards AR Peter Thomasson PT Gerard Tissier GT AVO-IAP Wolfgang Voges WV SWG Nicolas Walton NW AstroGrid SWG Andreas Wicenec AW AVO-ESO Agenda: 20 Jan 2003 13:45 SWG Demo: Lecture Room 13:45 Welcome (Piero Benvenuti) 14:00 Demo 14:30 Q&A 14:45 Hands-on demo: Computer room (Markus, Mark, Nic, Anita) 15:30 tea/coffee in Science Centre dining room 16:00 Hands-on demo: Computer room (continued) 16:30 Feedback and comments for development of Demo Agenda: 21 Jan 2003 09:15 Welcome and Breakout Group Signup 09.30 Review of Previous Minutes & Outstanding Action Items 10.00 AVO Update - including: 10.00 AVO WA0 Quinn 10.15 AVO WA1 Benvenuti 10.30 AVO WA2 Genova 10.45 AVO WA3 Walton 11.00 Coffee 11.30 Update on Science Requirements Capture Process 12.00 Breakout groups: Focus of these will be to identify science topics in these areas and note capabilities required to speed the science discovery process. Aim to set a range of priorities for AVO in these areas. A: Cosmology B: Galaxy Structure & Formation C: Stellar and Planets 13.00 Lunch 13.45 Breakout groups: A: Cosmology B: Galaxy Structure & Formation C: Stellar and Planets 14.15 Reporting Back 15 min presentations from representative of each group. 14.15 A: Cosmology 14.30 B: Galaxy Structure & Formation 14.45 C: Stellar and Planets 15.00 Implications for Future Capabilities 15.30 Meeting Closes Coffee ---------------- Minutes: Meeting 21 Jan 2003 1. Welcome and Breakout Group Signup PB welcomed the SWG to the meeting and outlined the major aims of the meeting: - Update SWG on the AVO current status - Demonstrate the AVO 1st Light prototype - Allow SWG use of, and feedback on, the AVO prototype - Identify science drivers for future extensions to the AVO 2. Review of Previous Meeting Notes and Action Items. The meeting noted from the 12 June 2002 SWG meeting held at ESO, Munich, were read and agreed. (see http://www.euro-vo.org/internal/Avo/SwgReports/swg1206.txt) NW noted that the requirements document resulting from the SWG sub group (chaired by Walton) (determining the functionality required by the AVO 1st Light demonstrator) were made available on the web at http://www.euro-vo.org/internal/Avo/SwgReports/AVO_Sci_Req.pdf 3. The composition of the work groups (see 6, 7, below) were decided. 4. AVO Work Area Reports to the SWG Brief presentations were made to update the SWG on the current progress with the project, 4.1 AVO WA0 - Management 4.1.1 Programme PQ reported that the project had been running for one year, and that the end date was November 2004. 4.1.2 Euro-VO The AVO was funded under the EU FP5 programme (see http://dbs.cordis.lu/fep-cgi/srchidadb?ACTION=D&SESSION=163912003-9-23&DOC=8&TBL=EN_PROJ&RCN=EP_PJA_A:AVO&CALLER=PROJ_IHP_ARI), and was seen primarily as as pilot study for a future European Wide Euro-VO. The Euro-VO would be funded through the EU FP6 programme, the 1st round of these calls close Apr/May and Oct 2003. Proposals were currently being formulated. The Euro-VO was being constructed to have three major strands: The Data Centre Alliance, the VO Technology Centre, and the VO Facility Centre. 4.1.3 International Coordination The AVO is a founder member of the International Virtual Observatory Alliance (see http://www.ivoa.net). All major VO projects from around the world are participants in this, including representative projects from the US, UK, Russia, China, Japan, France, Germany, Italy, and so forth. This coordinating forum is primarily focused on agreeing interoperability standards. Currently it as active working groups in the following areas: Content Description (UCD) VOTable Data Access Layer (SIA) Data Model Registry Astronomical Query Language (AQL) Discussion lists have been set up for each (see http://www.ivoa.net/forum). Participation and input from the SWG is welcome. The next major meeting of the IVOA will be held at the IAU General Assembly in Sydney - 23 July 2003. 4.2 AVO WA1 - Science [ppt] PB noted that the SWG has 31 members with an additional 20 'members at large' This was the third meeting - paperwork from these being available from http://www.euro-vo.org/twiki/bin/view/Avo/SwgReports The SWG terms of reference had been agreed and are located at http://www.euro-vo.org/internal/Avo/WorkAreaZero/AVO_SWG_ToR.pdf. PB noted the important role that the SWG was having in defining the science mission of the the AVO, from which the technical capabilities are being derived. TP noted that the SWG welcomed the opportunity to explore the functionality present in the AVO 1st Light Demonstrator product. 4.3 AVO WA2 - Interoperability [ppt] FG reported that significant work was under way in a number of 'interoperability' areas. Current 'hot topics' included: - UCD's: should there be one/ a few / many? See http://vizier.u-strasbg.fr/UCD/ for background on this. - Data Models, Web Services ('Sesame', a name resolver) 4.4 AVO WA3 - Technology [ppt] AL noted that the AstroGrid was leading the technological aspects of the AVO. Relevant components are listed on both the AVO and AstroGrid wiki sites. 5. Update on Science Requirements Capture Process NW reported on development of the AVO science requirements. Activity was concentrated in a number of areas: - input from the AVO SWG - activities in AstroGrid and its science requirements - activities at both the CDS and Jodrell Bank. This meeting would begin the progress of setting priorities on the next steps in the development of AVO technical capabilities. 6. Breakout groups: NW informed the SWG that the focus of these working groups would be be to identify science topics in these areas and note capabilities required to speed the science discovery process. The aim was to set a range of priorities for AVO in these broad areas, with each group lead by a group convenor. - Cosmology :convenor: Dave De Young - Galaxy Structure & Formation :convenor: Pepi Fabbiano - Stellar and Planets :convenor: Timo Prusti These groups met in breakout sessions before and after lunch. 7. Reporting Back Short presentations were given to the plenary session of the SWG by the convenor of each of the working groups. This group included, amongst others: Nic Walton, Yannick Mellier, Tony Banday, Bruno Leibendgut, Francoise Genova, Luiz Da Costa, Wolfgang Voges, Dave De Young (convenor). 7.1 Cosmology DY reported that the group had split the cosmology area into a number of prime driver areas. 7.1.1 CMB Need: - Full Sky Data - Large scale correlations - Covariance Matrices - Global data sets - Numerical simulations Issues: - Characterisation of pixels - Use VO for component analysis e.g., pt source removal; object variability - Combine multiple datasets: Planck, MAP, CMB, ROSAT all sky 7.1.2 Cosmic Shear Need: - 5000 sq deg; I = 24.5 - 22.5 - Photo z's (UVRIJK) - 0.2"-0.25" pixels - PSF < 1" - Followup on specific objects Issues/VO role: - Exposure time calculators - Mosaic/stack faint surveys - Optical plus NIR data - Query: recover raw data or do reprocessing via algorithm upload? - Catalogue generation - Return a VOTable - Enable Astrovirtel 7.1.3 Large Scale Structure Need: - X-ray/optical/radio cross correlations - Cross correlations with numerical simulations - Use theory as simulated data VO Role: - Tools to find outliers, etc. - Theory metadata - Tools to extract data from theory cubes and do instrumental convolutions 7.1.4 Strong Lensing Frequency of strong lensing will give insights into: - Mass profile of DM halos - Galaxy evolution - Dark (non-baryonic) clustering Need: - Morphology search tools - Transient search - time critical - Time domain datasets VO Issues: - Lensing search results create the database for transient searches - Time critical response 7.1.5 Chemical Evolution: Z(z) Need: - Keck, VLT archives - Automatic redshift determinations - ALMA data for dust, CO searches vs z - UV photon tracking - reionization epoch VO tools; - Redshift finding machine - issues; aperture corrections, area on sky, spectral libraries This case was the major initiative based on spectral data 7.1.6 Universe at z=3 (other than emission lines) Need: - NGST data - Cross correlations with ALMA, NIR, UV data - Cross match with all other archives VO tools: - Appropriate filters - Option to re-reduce data 7.1.7. Evolution of the fundamental plane with z Need: - Automated rotation curve measuring machine - ALMA data - SKA data - Optical and IR data - About 1 million objects with spatial and velocity resolution Data are now sparse and will be for 10 years; this is a good test project with current smaller datasets 7.2 Galaxy Structure & Formation PF reported on this groups activities. The group consisted of: John Brooke, Gerry Gilmore, Mark Allen, Mary Kontizas, Patrick Leahy, Pepi Fabbiano (convenor), Peter Tomasson, Preben Grosbol, Richard de Grijs, Salim Ansari, Tom Oosterloo, Vagelis Kontikas. Three major themes emerged from the discussion. 7.2.1 Analysis of very large data sets Analysis of very large data sets applies both to survey data (e.g. SLOAN) and detailed analysis of high resolution observations of nearby objects. Scientific objectives include: - near field cosmology/galaxy structure/mapping/colors - Population studies for nearby objects - Large area correlation studies - Colour-spatial cross-correlations. The group identified the need for statistical analysis and cross-correlation tools. In particular, the following points were made: - Access to sample characteristics and biases to aid in selection of unbiased/complete multi-wavelength samples. - Use of limits in all quantities when detection is lacking - The ability of getting feedback from the data point to the data cube. E.g. selects a subset of points via appropriate filter in a colour-magnitude diagram, and display /use images (postage stamps; adaptive zooming with remote data sets) - Ability of define metrics for axes being displayed in an IDL-like language. - Fuzzy cross-correlation for extended/complex objects - Time axis 7.2.2 Multiwavelength analysis of `pointed' data Multiwavelength analysis of given galaxies requires: - Metadata and data model - to handle image data , spectra (e.g. fiber datacubes), PSF/possibly varying, WCS, non-linearities. Sky coverage, mosaic-ing. - Apertures need to be documented in spectra. - Ability to extract point sources and their properties (e.g. SED, spectra), but also extracting properties (e.g. SED) of extended regions selected by user. - User must be able to select SED model to flux data. 7.2.3 Theory data/ model comparison Observing the Virtual Sky. Both for large set analysis and single galaxy studies there is need to have access to models, either from a reference library or user provided. - Capability for user to input own models - Models should be considered as a Virtual Sky, i.e. represent the 'truth' or the theoretician view of the truth. The VO must give users the ability to observe these models, by convolving them with the appropriate telescope and instrument responses so that they can be directly compared with different data sets. Finally, use of VO for definition of new instruments. For example, one can derive SEDs of a class of important objects and from this define the optimal photometric bands. 7.3 Stellar and Planets TP reported on the stars and planets groups' activities. This group included: Timo Prusti (convenor), Patricio Ortiz, Florian Kerber, Ana Gomez de Castro The group noted that a stellar area project is required as a driver for future developments of the AVO demonstrator. In particular one exploiting spectroscopic observations of for instance the Orion nebular cloud. Key demands from the stellar area included: - Comparison tool for different kind of data from different sources - Cross-correlation tool - Few sources (demo) - Large samples statistically - Connection/collaboration with theoretical data (atomic/molecular lines) - Connection to standards/templates and reference objects - Handling of stacks of images of a single sky position (including different instruments) - Variability, proper motion, faint standards - Stellar spectral classification 8. Implications for Future Capabilities In the plenary session a number of areas for future capability were highlighted as of importance: - access to photometric tools (e.g. redshift determinations) - access to spectral data sets ability for - user upload of data/models - integration of model data (e.g. evolutionary tracks) - access to theoretical data (e.g. atomic line data) - access to statistical techniques (e.g. fuzzy cross-correlations) Meeting Closed at 17.00 @